Danes ‘Stream' or 'River’? - An Update

Since recently publishing the story below, I have heard from Terry Langford. Now this is quite scary on two levels, firstly it means that someone reads the nonsense I write, & secondly he knows what he is talking about, something I have never claimed to do!

Terry writes: Dear Ed, As a freshwater biologist for over 50 years, I regard the Dane stream as a "stream", one of the suite of New Forest streams, albeit more urbanised than most. Actually, the definition is immaterial...a stream or river to most of us is what we want it to be. In America the Dane stream would probably be called a ditch. The Danes stream is quite interesting ecologically in that it suffers urban run-off but still manages to hold a head of sea-trout, quite large some of them. It has mayflies too, but the fauna is not a diverse as those of the less urbanised streams. There seem to be no major inherent problems apart from the urban run-off in the stream above Milford, but it is interesting. Probably a bit too much silt near the bridge but that is because the channel is too wide for the low flows and silt settles out then.

So there you have it, you can call it what you like, you can fish for the odd sea-trout, & if you hear an American call it a ditch, tell them that it is a river which is full of salmon.

ORIGINAL STORY:

You may recall that a few months ago I had a debate on these pages (mainly with myself), as to which was correct ‘Danes Stream’, Danestream’, or even ‘Dane Stream’. That research was inconclusive & as you may recall that I put several ridiculous arguments to ensure the confusion continued. Anyway, my friend Dan (who ludicrously claimed the stream was named after him!), wanted to know whether it was a stream, or as he suspected, was it actually a river? Naturally, I had no idea, & Dan is normally wrong about most things, but I felt that it was another excuse to do some more inane research. I thought it might be best to start with a definition of a river. "A river is a natural stream of water, usually freshwater, flowing toward the ocean, a lake, or another stream. Usually larger streams are called rivers while smaller streams are called creeks, brooks, rivulets, rills, and many other terms, but there is no general rule that defines what can be called a river.” Blimey, we may have a ‘Creek’?! I had been hoping that my research would have ended with the definition & I could then go down to the Smugglers, but a statement like ‘no general rule that defines what can be called a river’ really doesn’t help. To steel myself for the next phase of this challenge I did what all self respecting sudo-geographers do, I asked my wife to get me a beer from the fridge. A couple of minutes later I was back, having been to the fridge myself as my darling had gently suggested this was a better option. Back to work, my next discovery was a New Forest District Council planning application which contained ‘an advisory comment from the Environment Agency, that no development should take place within 8 metres of the Danestream River.’ River?, it’s a river! Next, I found on the web the Parish Council News from October 2003, which referred to the ‘Footpath & Danes Stream River Revetment Work’. Oh no, Why is my life so complicated? I now have to find out what ‘Revetment’ means. Hang on a second. Ah, right, Revetment means ‘a facing of stones, sandbags, etc., to protect a wall, embankment, or earthworks’ or ‘A barricade against explosives’. My guess is that they were referring to the first definition. The Department of Geography at the University of Portsmouth, have a record of the ‘Hampshire Olim Pars Belgarum County Map’ by John Norden in 1595, on this our little waterway is indexed as Danes Stream & it also shows two tributaries that flow into it upstream. (Just like a river?) By now I was getting bored reading maps with silly names, & my wife’s legs still had no intention of going anywhere near the fridge, so I used my own to pop down to The Smugglers. A couple of pints later I was on my way home when my quest returned to haunt me. Walking down Sea Road & over Danes Stream, I spotted a road name sign saying ‘River Gardens’, now even more fuel was added to the fire. My final investigation found that our very own Parish Vision 2020 refers to the ‘Danestream River.’ So there you have it, our stream may well be a river. Unfortunately, Eastenders had now finished & my wife had decided to take an interest in what I was up to, rather than Pete Beale or whoever else shouts in that daft soap. I suddenly wished that it had been an hour long episode when she said “I'd say that any water that flows could be considered a stream, but a large stream is a river, & boats go on rivers not streams” Great, just when I thought that I had sorted it for all mankind. Only one answer to solve it then. If you see a large man in shorts, with a canoe on his back heading towards the river/stream’s mouth at Sturt Pond, don’t stop me, I will be on a mission to see if I can get from one end to the other!  www.milfordonsea.org/news